Decorations update


  • Dev Team

    We appreciate your care about our legal position, but let's not worry about it. We're fine. We analyzed this concern when we designed this feature. It's not gambling, we're not selling items. You can generate pixels in-game using your CPU (which we also sell!), so even if we removed pixels from the store, you still have the same process: buy CPU -> use it to generate pixels -> get random decorations. Or buy CPU Unlocks -> sell for credits -> buy pixels -> get random decorations.

    The randomness of decorations crafting does not make it gambling, it's simply a game mechanic involving some in-game resources. The way how you get these resources is up to you and does not relate strictly to crafting.

    You can also sell your purchased pixels directly for credits if you wish, so you're not "buying blind". If you choose to spend your pixels in a game mechanic with a random aspect, then that's your choice, we're not forcing you. We provide you with the specific and visible amount of pixels, that's all.

    If gambling was treated this way, then any game with some random aspects in its mechanics and transferable purchasable resources would be gambling.


  • Dev Team

    @gadjung said in Decorations update:

    they are broken if browser does not support WebGL (make room completely unreadable)

    Decorations should be disabled if WebGL is not supported. Isn't it the case for you?

    tend to lean heavy on browser GPU cpu and memory

    Do you have more specific details?



  • Well I am going to have to agree with some of the above posters about room visuals. They really affect the readability of the room to the human player. There have been several rooms that I have to really study just to determine where the swamps and natural terrain are. Obviously the code doesn't have an issue with it but the human player might. That is going to really hamper people if they need to do some emergency coding.

    Looking at the world map with the room visual alpha mode on I can see an unsightly patchwork of various room visuals. Honestly it just looks ugly to me. I would greatly like the ability to turn all of this stuff off.

    Regarding the Steam market, is there anything you can do about selling pixels on there? Currently the lowest price we can sell pixels for is $0.01 where as you(the devs) are selling them for $0.0012. There is absolutely no way we can compete with that. If that is the way you wanted it to be designed then so be it. If that is the case, there may as well not be a market entry for individual pixels.

    👍


  • Yeah, the decorations aren't too bad, but the background layers can be made to really obscure what's going in a room. I'm not a huge fan of those.


  • YP

    @artch said in Decorations update:

    We appreciate your care about our legal position, but let's not worry about it. We're fine. We analyzed this concern when we designed this feature. It's not gambling, we're not selling items. You can generate pixels in-game using your CPU (which we also sell!), so even if we removed pixels from the store, you still have the same process: buy CPU -> use it to generate pixels -> get random decorations. Or buy CPU Unlocks -> sell for credits -> buy pixels -> get random decorations.

    If there is an OPTION to roll a random thing using something with real world value, that strictly IS gambling. just because you don't force it, doesn't make that go away.

    The randomness of decorations crafting does not make it gambling, it's simply a game mechanic involving some in-game resources. The way how you get these resources is up to you and does not relate strictly to crafting.

    Yes it does, it precisely makes it gambling.

    You can also sell your purchased pixels directly for credits if you wish, so you're not "buying blind". If you choose to spend your pixels in a game mechanic with a random aspect, then that's your choice, we're not forcing you. We provide you with the specific and visible amount of pixels, that's all.

    Having the choice to gamble with them on a completely unknown set of end points is 100% gambling.

    If gambling was treated this way, then any game with some random aspects in its mechanics and transferable purchasable resources would be gambling.

    Yes, that's EXACTLY what it is in ANY and all games with that mechanic where the currency to buy said random boxes is attainable for real world money. This is precisely why there has been a massive crackdown on it artch.. It doesn't matter that there are other options, the fact that there is ANY option to purchase or a purchase flow to get a random lootbox for currency through any path, makes it gambling.

    This is like saying you can gamble to win a thing for x number of monies ( $ cost of pixels) on a random roll, OR you can pay more actual $ to buy the thing from the store... This is 100% gambling.



  • @artch i see that no-webgl supported browser no longer render decorations - my bad here

    regarding cpu/memory opening rooms with decorations (walls/floors) seem to add ~50-100MB to Memory of Screeps tab in browser, and bump GPU process around 100-200MB also (that fells down a bit later)

    Seems also that there are leaking Dedicated Workers (hard to pinpoint from where/what action)

    Also opening rooms with decorations feels 3-5x slower than opening other rooms

    @artch regarding Selling Items: The 'possible' legal issue is not that You sell items that are random, but that the game creates possibility for a player to participate in gambling using real world money 🙂


  • Dev Team

    @kyralee

    Well I am going to have to agree with some of the above posters about room visuals. They really affect the readability of the room to the human player. There have been several rooms that I have to really study just to determine where the swamps and natural terrain are. Obviously the code doesn't have an issue with it but the human player might. That is going to really hamper people if they need to do some emergency coding. Looking at the world map with the room visual alpha mode on I can see an unsightly patchwork of various room visuals. Honestly it just looks ugly to me. I would greatly like the ability to turn all of this stuff off.

    True, some decoration combinations may be very bad choice. But room owners have their right to make bad choices. It's their property, we don't want to restrict them in any way.

    Regarding the Steam market, is there anything you can do about selling pixels on there? Currently the lowest price we can sell pixels for is $0.01 where as you(the devs) are selling them for $0.0012. There is absolutely no way we can compete with that. If that is the way you wanted it to be designed then so be it. If that is the case, there may as well not be a market entry for individual pixels.

    That is something that we plan to fix later, but it's not an easy fix, so it may take a while.


  • Dev Team

    @gadjung What is your OS, browser, video, how much RAM and CPU do you have?



  • @artch Win10, I5-6600k, 16GB, NVidia GTX 1060 6GB, Chrome Version 83.0.4103.116 (Official Build) (64-bit)



  • @artch While from a legal standpoint you are fine in Russia, I think they are worried about what it means in EU and if they invest any money into pixels that it might be taken away at a later time, or that it might be legal issues. They are asking these points for you, not for them selves.

    Nothing about how to get pixels, or the randomness of getting items makes it gambling. It's the fact that it's tradable for other currency(steam$$) makes it gambling. Take away the trading and you take away the gambling factor.

    This is how it's gambling: Money->Pixels->Art->Steam Inv -> Money -> Pixels.

    Take away the Steam inv and replace it with in-game trading and it might take away the money part of this equation:

    Money->Pixels->Art->Credits->pixels->Art

    The current graffiti is just random graphics, it would be cool if it was more screeps related, and maybe even have contests for players to draw vector art that can be voted on and put in the game. Why is there no graffiti with actual game art? You have all these cool designs and stuff in the GUI, is this not available? 0_1593610790573_4ba04fc3-7236-4b93-8843-3f34a30ac05d-image.png


  • Dev Team

    @likeafox Of course we're talking about EU. Russia jurisdiction has nothing to do with it.

    Sorry, I don't really want to continue these arguments. We're grateful for all your opinions, we considered it as well as our own research, and we're fine, really. There will be no legal issues. Let's stop this discussion please. Let's talk about the game, not about legal matters that none of us are competent enough in.

    Why is there no graffiti with actual game art?

    What makes you think there is no such graffiti? 😉

    Currently active image base is just the beginning. We're working on more, a lot more. We will add new images all the time, including unique art and very special sets of images.

    👍


  • An issue I'm having is that I really dislike the "Lighting effects" in the room, so I have them disabled and the "animated swamps" (Which look like toxic waste) turned off. I have no idea if I'm the lone weirdo for doing that, but it is what it is.

    Anyway, the issue is this makes the wall and floor textures WAY too light! I keep looking for the rare feature to be able to set that, but all I seem to get is "Stroke brightness" which does very little.

    If you could push the brightness control for W and F decorations to a lower rarity, that would make a LOT more of the textures usable.

    Added images: Here is what a typical texture looks like in one of my room: 0_1593645320470_88b60150-88c7-41e6-a7bf-4c655584a73f-image.png

    But THIS is what it looks like in the preview: 0_1593645405989_239ebe1e-354e-4594-9d13-cd02b66f0859-image.png

    It looks much darker because the preview defaults to the "normal" lighting. This gives a false sense of the actual appearance of the image on an actual room if you're not using the "normal" setting.



  • Oh. And as long as I'm here. I like the range of images. Sure, I toss the goofy "stock line art" into the recycle bin, but what else is it for? The way I see it, Screeps is a "generic image game" with round and square shapes instead of styled, rendered images. It's very "indie" in that respect and i like that style. As such, there are no real "Screepsy" images TO put in there.

    But a range of images like you are putting in will produce ones that appeal to people. For example, I really like the circular "Babylon ocean clock face" looking graffiti I have in that room. No way it's "Screepsy" at all, but it lends an artistic flair to the room. At least, in my opinion. And I'm the one that has to look at it.

    So that part is fine.



  • This post is deleted!

  • YP

    @artch said in Decorations update:

    What makes you think there is no such graffiti? 😉

    The lack of list of possible rolls and their chances... for a start. 😉


  • Dev Team

    @smokeman Good point about lighting settings. We have to look into it.



  • Chrome 83.0.4103.116 (Official Build) (64-bit)

    I can access the spinning box at webGL site, but the normal interface says I cannot enable webGL. Hardware accel is turned on in Chrome.

    The alpha version is a black screen with some of the overlay icons for manipulating the page. Zero visuals on the map or rooms, etc.

    I cleared cookies to get back to the normal view, but the alpha version is not going to work for me.


  • Culture

    I know I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I think this feature set is great and the implementation was really well done.