Please redesign the goal of markets

  • @conquest said in Please redesign the goal of markets:

    The market tax should be on the one executing the deal.

    We already have that in energy costs for terminal transmission.

  • @JBYoshi yes, one side pays a tax in energy when .deal()ing, but a tax of credits for the creator is made at the creation of the order. i think @Conquest is saying that the credit tax shouldnt be on creation, but when the .deal() occurs, just like the energy tax.

    Honestly, i agree with this. perhaps lower/eliminate the credit fee for adjusting prices of existing orders too. That would make it easier for ppl to enter the market. I know a lot of people are afraid of posting orders with prices that dont sell or otherwise dont get filled. they would get charged a fee for creating the order and again when they adjust it due to a mistake. This makes ppl hesitant to even enter the market to begin with, or automate it where a single error could cost millions of credits, and another millions to fix.

  • @jbyoshi I mean, that's another thing. It shouldn't cost 10k energy to send 10k energy across a Sector


  • @deft-code The shards are very like the regional markets - as there are hard limits on information shared between regions (i.e. you can't see what's in another shard/region unless you travel to that shard/region)

  • @conquest I have actually done the math, it never reaches 100% price of order amount. I think largest one you get is like 60-70% on shard0 dealing from center to edge or some similar distance (don't forget that market-wise worlds wrap around at the edges).

  • @orlet shard1 from center to edge costs 8647 energy to transfer 10k energy. No math used here, just using default API methods. A bit higher then 60-70%.

  • SUN

    There is simply no need to send energy across the map. Buy local or just set up an ORDER_BUY.

    If you need to estimate credit/energy overhead costs to maximise profits you can use the energy sending cost and multiply it by the cost it would take you to buy more energy (Highest buy order + 0.001 in my case).

    The market is fine IMHO; just one more programming challenge to overcome.

  • @gimmecookies hmmm... i must be misremembering something then. But it still doesn't reach 100% either 😛

  • Yep the function is an asymptotic curve IIRC so you would get relatively close to infinity before you hit 10k

  • To me the main issue with the market is that it's very difficult to link up buyers and sellers. The only way to express your interest in buying or selling a resource is to create an order. There are two issues here:

    1. The limit of 50 orders is totally insufficient. There are 42 resources, so you can't even have 1 buy and 1 sell order for every resource. That's before we even think about multiple rooms (which will be needed, because the market is localised).
    2. Orders are subject to a fee as soon as they are created

    These issues seriously discourage creating prospective market orders. I have some LO to sell, but I'm not going to create an order because I can't afford to waste one that might never be fulfilled. I have no idea if anyone is interested in buying, or if there is, I have no idea what price they would buy at.

    If I do decide to create a sell order, what price do I start with? How long do I wait before lowering the price? Has it not sold because I'm asking too much or because there are no buyers right now? What amount should I place the initial order for? If I create an order with a small amount to see whether anyone is interested, perhaps no-one will buy because they don't want to waste a terminal cooldown on such a small amount. If I create it with more, I'm wasting more credits if no-one buys or I have to reduce the price.

    Both issues discourage creating orders in the first place. If I do create an order, the up-front fee with no refunds causes orders to be placed with tiny amounts, even if I have 500,000 resource to sell.

    This is what slows the market down, and it's particularly bad for less popular resources like middle-tier boosts.