Power Creeps update


  • Dev Team

    @gankdalf

    If you have EXTEND_SOURCE, this means you've spent some energy on power levels, which could have been spent on control levels otherwise. So having EXTEND_SOURCE means your balance has shifted to more energy and less spawn capacity in comparison to not having it. OPERATE_SPAWN is there to balance it back. Ops cost and other powers parameters may change to make this balance better.

    I want to know the actual thought behind it. I want to know what you know.

    This is understandable, but sorry--not realistic. We'd need to stop developing and start debating on forums full time if we try to satisfy everyone's need for information.

    👍


  • @artch Okay so I talked to @o4kapuk a bit. I think I can understand the usage of OPERATE_SPAWN a bit more, although I feel like not many people actually use spawn capacity in this way.

    Assuming traditional 6W1C3M miners, OPERATE_SPAWN makes very little sense. Actually, this is pretty much what was being discussed here. It seems pointless to increase spawn capacity for this. You run out of CPU long before you run out of spawn capacity for more small miners.

    However, if you use spawn capacity to not necessarily make more remote mines, but to make bigger miners, it means that you are spending more spawn capacity on reducing the CPU you are spending per remote mine. I had already considered using large miners, but hadn't fully calculated the spawn load on doing it.

    In this context the power makes sense. It saves CPU at the cost of energy and ops. I still think it is probably a bit underpowered, but It's closer to what I would expect from a power with this context in mind. I am not sure it fits with how I plan on using power creeps, but I can see where it could be used.

    We'd need to stop developing and start debating on forums full time if we try to satisfy everyone's need for information.

    K, that's a fair point 😂


  • SUN

    Random spitball: What about rework operate spawn as a way to spawn bigger creeps?

    Duration 5 ticks: Spawn is able to spawn a creep body of +5/10/15/20/25 increased body size (doesn't stack). When spawn has the buff it is able to start spawning a larger creep but doesn't require it for the full spawn duration.

    Allows you to have spawn some huge creeps. Make it fairly expensive, but now you can save cpu by having some huge creeps to mine minerals, upgrade, build, siege, etc. You're still limited by total room energy.

    Also, this would now make renew more useful. Now you can generate mega creeps and keep them alive with renew.


  • SUN

    I did not need my full spawn capacity even when I had SK farming on. That said I could not actually use full spawn capacity due to inefficient filling code/layouts.

    Even with operate_extension thrown in It would be physically impossible for me to make continuous use of operate_spawn.

    This is a problem with my code that I should of overhauled six months ago but... I know I won't be the only one who has trouble using this power to its full potential.

    I say this to point to the relatively higher bar for entry compared to the other powers. Many of of these powers can be integrated to existing offensive/defensive/economic strategies with trivial effort (even if such a solution would not be optimal it would be usable)

    That said with the infrastructure to support it and a decent power commitment you could give military spawn-rates quite a kick, something that has been proven to cause my main spawn bottlenecks so... high investment high reward?



  • More pointless questions about WIP powers \o/

    1. Does DISRUPT_SPAWN prevent renew?
    2. Is it possible to use .cancelSpawn() and then OPERATE_SPAWN to quickly spawn a small creep before the an operator can reapply DISRUPT_SPAWN?
    3. Does DISRUPT_SPAWN even work if the spawn isn't spawning anything?
    4. Can one power creep use EXTEND_SOURCE on the same source 3 times to make it have 18,000 energy per regeneration period, since the power cooldown is less than the source regeneration period?

    Lastly just a random idea. Should use costs maybe scale with levels? I feel like some of the random powers you are forced to take become useless, since they don't stack and cost just as much as the level 5 version to use. It might be cool to have the option to use 3 level 1 powers together, rather than 1.5 level 5 powers.


  • SUN

    A few thoughts @artch

    1. Being able to see enemy power creep "bodies" will be very important, but it would also be very valuable to see when a power has been used. For example, if you dodge an opponents "kill" power because you ducked under a rampart AFAIK there will be no indication that anything happened for the defending player. This is not a rewarding experience.

    There are a lot of powers that are very hard to track down. Consider adding a way to see opponent power cds/usage to make it more interactive.

    1. What do power creeps drop when they are destroyed? Other creeps drop a fraction of their body cost.

    2. In-game Events Power Surge: Consider having a period every month or two where power spawning is quadrupled. This will give players a chance to catch up and lead to increased player engagement during that time period. There are some other events related to invasions and portals but given that this is a power creep thread...

    3. Power creep spawning: What does it mean for a power creep to die? Does their body worth of resources get locked up for a respawn period? Can a given power spawn only spawn every x ticks with a long cd? Does actually spawning a power creep take a long time? I'd love more details on this.


  • Dev Team

    @gankdalf

    Does DISRUPT_SPAWN prevent renew?

    No it doesn't.

    Is it possible to use .cancelSpawn() and then OPERATE_SPAWN to quickly spawn a small creep before the an operator can reapply DISRUPT_SPAWN?

    Yes, it is. Also, you don't have to apply OPERATE_SPAWN again, since its cooldown is 1000 ticks.

    Does DISRUPT_SPAWN even work if the spawn isn't spawning anything?

    Obviously it doesn't, since there is no active spawning to disrupt.

    Can one power creep use EXTEND_SOURCE on the same source 3 times to make it have 18,000 energy per regeneration period, since the power cooldown is less than the source regeneration period?

    Yes.


  • Dev Team

    @davaned

    1. Being able to see enemy power creep "bodies" will be very important, but it would also be very valuable to see when a power has been used. For example, if you dodge an opponents "kill" power because you ducked under a rampart AFAIK there will be no indication that anything happened for the defending player. This is not a rewarding experience. There are a lot of powers that are very hard to track down. Consider adding a way to see opponent power cds/usage to make it more interactive.

    Every power activation will be visually indicated by its icon, see this video. As for exposing this info to the API, see Events system discussion.

    1. What do power creeps drop when they are destroyed? Other creeps drop a fraction of their body cost.

    Power creeps are never permanently destroyed, unlike regular creeps. When killed (temporarily), they only drop carried resources.

    1. Power creep spawning: What does it mean for a power creep to die? Does their body worth of resources get locked up for a respawn period? Can a given power spawn only spawn every x ticks with a long cd? Does actually spawning a power creep take a long time? I'd love more details on this.

    These are implementation details. We'll move on to them when we start actual development on the PTR.



  • @artch

    Obviously it doesn't, since there is no active spawning to disrupt.

    It isn't that obvious when a nuke can kill a spawning creep, leaving the spawn to continue spawning nothing.


  • Dev Team

    @gankdalf That's a bug, spawning should stop when a nuke lands, we'll check that.

    👍